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	<title>Comments for streets.mn</title>
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	<link>http://www.streets.mn</link>
	<description>Transportation and Land Use in Minnesota</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 22:28:09 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Jeb</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2921</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 22:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2921</guid>
		<description>I think the key is how busy the road is that&#039;s using the bypass. Frankly, almost any four-lane trunk highway should not be equated to the main street of a town unless it has a bypass, because otherwise there&#039;s too much battling with cars, trucks, and other vehicles to be pedestrian-friendly. As mentioned above, St. Peter&#039;s main street/US 169 didn&#039;t seem to do as much for pedestrian traffic, and I probably wouldn&#039;t want to walk across that street either (unless it&#039;s signalized.) To be fair, the routing of US 169 through St. Peter might be due to geography as much as it has to do with a desire to have it cut through downtown. Plus, these roads can cut apart a city if they&#039;re too busy, much like the Interstates have. They simply become too cumbersome to cross safely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the key is how busy the road is that&#8217;s using the bypass. Frankly, almost any four-lane trunk highway should not be equated to the main street of a town unless it has a bypass, because otherwise there&#8217;s too much battling with cars, trucks, and other vehicles to be pedestrian-friendly. As mentioned above, St. Peter&#8217;s main street/US 169 didn&#8217;t seem to do as much for pedestrian traffic, and I probably wouldn&#8217;t want to walk across that street either (unless it&#8217;s signalized.) To be fair, the routing of US 169 through St. Peter might be due to geography as much as it has to do with a desire to have it cut through downtown. Plus, these roads can cut apart a city if they&#8217;re too busy, much like the Interstates have. They simply become too cumbersome to cross safely.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Jeb</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2920</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 22:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2920</guid>
		<description>Depends on the town. Larger towns typically don&#039;t have this problem, or have it to a much smaller degree. Most of these are due to the fact that they have business routes through town (for example, Willmar, MN has Business 23/71 that has most of the businesses) and most businesses congregate there. For an extremely stark example, look at Le Mars, IA. The only thing even remotely close to the bypass is the Blue Bunny plant...even gas stations have stayed on the business road through town.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Depends on the town. Larger towns typically don&#8217;t have this problem, or have it to a much smaller degree. Most of these are due to the fact that they have business routes through town (for example, Willmar, MN has Business 23/71 that has most of the businesses) and most businesses congregate there. For an extremely stark example, look at Le Mars, IA. The only thing even remotely close to the bypass is the Blue Bunny plant&#8230;even gas stations have stayed on the business road through town.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2917</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 20:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2917</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little dubious about that study.  They rest their case on the fact that only 5% of traffic-dependent businesses were located within a half-mile of bypasses, which seems a)incredibly low to me based on my own experience of Wisconsin (think St Croix Falls or Hudson) and b) the wrong metric anyway.  They should have been looking at relative growth rates of bypass and downtown areas.  And based on Hudson a one-half mile radius of exits is too small an area.  

But my earlier caffeine-fueled self was probably too harsh - certainly a town doesn&#039;t live or die based on bypasses.  I still think they have some effect though, and certainly small town main streets don&#039;t need any help dying.  I agree with you, though, that zoning can mitigate some of the effect of bypasses.  Unfortunately, I&#039;m not confident that Waseca is using that particular tool, as they seem to have zoned the southwest corner of the Hwy 15 bypass&#039; interchange with Hwy 13 for commercial.  I&#039;ll see you in 15 years to see who was right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little dubious about that study.  They rest their case on the fact that only 5% of traffic-dependent businesses were located within a half-mile of bypasses, which seems a)incredibly low to me based on my own experience of Wisconsin (think St Croix Falls or Hudson) and b) the wrong metric anyway.  They should have been looking at relative growth rates of bypass and downtown areas.  And based on Hudson a one-half mile radius of exits is too small an area.  </p>
<p>But my earlier caffeine-fueled self was probably too harsh &#8211; certainly a town doesn&#8217;t live or die based on bypasses.  I still think they have some effect though, and certainly small town main streets don&#8217;t need any help dying.  I agree with you, though, that zoning can mitigate some of the effect of bypasses.  Unfortunately, I&#8217;m not confident that Waseca is using that particular tool, as they seem to have zoned the southwest corner of the Hwy 15 bypass&#8217; interchange with Hwy 13 for commercial.  I&#8217;ll see you in 15 years to see who was right.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Froggie</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2914</link>
		<dc:creator>Froggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2914</guid>
		<description>Not quite the case, Alex.  Downtown/center of town still remained more or less intact, especially for the medium/larger sized towns.  Again, a lot of it had to do with what the town did afterwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not quite the case, Alex.  Downtown/center of town still remained more or less intact, especially for the medium/larger sized towns.  Again, a lot of it had to do with what the town did afterwards.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Froggie</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2913</link>
		<dc:creator>Froggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2913</guid>
		<description>What you&#039;re talking about speaks MUCH more to local zoning than it does to whether or not a town gets bypassed.  Furthermore, as I pointed out earlier, the &quot;strip retail&quot; you refer to already exists in Waseca along Hwy 13 (which is Not the route being bypassd).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you&#8217;re talking about speaks MUCH more to local zoning than it does to whether or not a town gets bypassed.  Furthermore, as I pointed out earlier, the &#8220;strip retail&#8221; you refer to already exists in Waseca along Hwy 13 (which is Not the route being bypassd).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2908</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2908</guid>
		<description>They&#039;ll take the bypass if they get a pricey ticket for going through town.

And regardless of where the businesses are oriented now, they&#039;ll orient themselves towards the freeway now that all the property fronting it is rezoned to allow strip retail.

Why would Waseca be exempt from the pattern that&#039;s affected Belle Plaine, Brainerd, Willmar, and pretty much every town along I-90?  Waseca may be hit even worse, once residents drive a little further to their new bypass strip mall, and realize it&#039;s not much further to Owatonna or Mankato.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They&#8217;ll take the bypass if they get a pricey ticket for going through town.</p>
<p>And regardless of where the businesses are oriented now, they&#8217;ll orient themselves towards the freeway now that all the property fronting it is rezoned to allow strip retail.</p>
<p>Why would Waseca be exempt from the pattern that&#8217;s affected Belle Plaine, Brainerd, Willmar, and pretty much every town along I-90?  Waseca may be hit even worse, once residents drive a little further to their new bypass strip mall, and realize it&#8217;s not much further to Owatonna or Mankato.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2905</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2905</guid>
		<description>Yeah they found no impact on overall economic activity, because the economic activity that once took place on Main Street is now taking place on the bypass. 

Which is fine for most people, because they were driving to Main Street anyway, now they&#039;ll just drive a little further to the bypass.  It&#039;s only a problem for people who think that developing entire sectors of our city that require a car to access is unfair, unhealthy, and inefficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah they found no impact on overall economic activity, because the economic activity that once took place on Main Street is now taking place on the bypass. </p>
<p>Which is fine for most people, because they were driving to Main Street anyway, now they&#8217;ll just drive a little further to the bypass.  It&#8217;s only a problem for people who think that developing entire sectors of our city that require a car to access is unfair, unhealthy, and inefficient.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2904</guid>
		<description>@Froggie - I don&#039;t think we&#039;re making different points. My original comment about bypasses was about rural towns, the overwhelming majority of which I would guess are under 2,000.

I would agree with Reuben that the TH-36 bypass of Stillwater will likely improve the walker&#039;s experience along main street, because, like Alex said, Stillwater is a destination in itself. Redwing is somewhat similar in this sense, but the towns I mentioned in WI along the Mississippi are different. Much of their attraction is that they are waypoints along a scenic/historic route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Froggie &#8211; I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re making different points. My original comment about bypasses was about rural towns, the overwhelming majority of which I would guess are under 2,000.</p>
<p>I would agree with Reuben that the TH-36 bypass of Stillwater will likely improve the walker&#8217;s experience along main street, because, like Alex said, Stillwater is a destination in itself. Redwing is somewhat similar in this sense, but the towns I mentioned in WI along the Mississippi are different. Much of their attraction is that they are waypoints along a scenic/historic route.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2903</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2903</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t disagree, but my guess would be that towns that have enough tourist business to be self-sustaining and enough through traffic to merit a bypass are the exception, at least in Minnesota. And a lot of those towns (like Stillwater) already have freeways nearby, making the bypass pointless (like Stillwater).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree, but my guess would be that towns that have enough tourist business to be self-sustaining and enough through traffic to merit a bypass are the exception, at least in Minnesota. And a lot of those towns (like Stillwater) already have freeways nearby, making the bypass pointless (like Stillwater).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Froggie</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2902</link>
		<dc:creator>Froggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2902</guid>
		<description>Trucks aren&#039;t going to take a &quot;township road bypass&quot; if it doesn&#039;t save them time and/or operating cost.  Your suggestion would have not improved the truck traffic through downtown Waseca...which in turn would make implementing Complete Streets that much more difficult.

Waseca is enough of a destination town, both being a county seat and most of the commerce/retail being along Hwy 13, not Hwy 14, that it likely won&#039;t see much of an economic impact from the new bypass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trucks aren&#8217;t going to take a &#8220;township road bypass&#8221; if it doesn&#8217;t save them time and/or operating cost.  Your suggestion would have not improved the truck traffic through downtown Waseca&#8230;which in turn would make implementing Complete Streets that much more difficult.</p>
<p>Waseca is enough of a destination town, both being a county seat and most of the commerce/retail being along Hwy 13, not Hwy 14, that it likely won&#8217;t see much of an economic impact from the new bypass.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Froggie</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2900</link>
		<dc:creator>Froggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2900</guid>
		<description>@reuben:  you mention that &quot;the city can&#039;t make any improvements without MnDOT&#039;s approval.&quot;  But a major point you left out is that, due to the state&#039;s municipal consent law, MnDOT conversely can&#039;t make any improvements without the city&#039;s approval.

I also disagree with Peter/Alex et all about how &quot;bypasses kill businesses&quot;.  Some studies of this have been done in the Upper Midwest, most notably a Wisconsin study in 1998.  As a general rule, they bypasses had little adverse effect on overall economic activity, and evidence suggests that removing through traffic (especially through trucks) assists in making such communities more accessible.  Only the really small communities (less than 2,000 population) were more prone to adverse impacts.  For the larger communities over the long term, average traffic levels were close to or even higher than pre-bypass, suggesting no loss and in some cases a gain in economic activity.

True, those businesses heavily dependent on vehicle traffic will lose business, but the city can also remake itself into a destination and promote businesses that aren&#039;t heavily dependent on passing highway traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@reuben:  you mention that &#8220;the city can&#8217;t make any improvements without MnDOT&#8217;s approval.&#8221;  But a major point you left out is that, due to the state&#8217;s municipal consent law, MnDOT conversely can&#8217;t make any improvements without the city&#8217;s approval.</p>
<p>I also disagree with Peter/Alex et all about how &#8220;bypasses kill businesses&#8221;.  Some studies of this have been done in the Upper Midwest, most notably a Wisconsin study in 1998.  As a general rule, they bypasses had little adverse effect on overall economic activity, and evidence suggests that removing through traffic (especially through trucks) assists in making such communities more accessible.  Only the really small communities (less than 2,000 population) were more prone to adverse impacts.  For the larger communities over the long term, average traffic levels were close to or even higher than pre-bypass, suggesting no loss and in some cases a gain in economic activity.</p>
<p>True, those businesses heavily dependent on vehicle traffic will lose business, but the city can also remake itself into a destination and promote businesses that aren&#8217;t heavily dependent on passing highway traffic.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Reuben Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2899</link>
		<dc:creator>Reuben Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2899</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think freeway-style bypasses are always a bad idea for main streets, primarily depending on how self-sustaining the Main Street can be without it, and how resilient the surrounding area is to the induced sprawl.

Not to open a can of worms, but I think the planned TH-36 bypass of Stillwater&#039;s Main Street can only have positive impacts on downtown Stillwater, since Stillwater&#039;s Main Street is more or less self-sustaining. In this case, the pass-through traffic is a distraction from what the Main Street does best, which is accommodating tourists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think freeway-style bypasses are always a bad idea for main streets, primarily depending on how self-sustaining the Main Street can be without it, and how resilient the surrounding area is to the induced sprawl.</p>
<p>Not to open a can of worms, but I think the planned TH-36 bypass of Stillwater&#8217;s Main Street can only have positive impacts on downtown Stillwater, since Stillwater&#8217;s Main Street is more or less self-sustaining. In this case, the pass-through traffic is a distraction from what the Main Street does best, which is accommodating tourists.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2897</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2897</guid>
		<description>Agreed. To this point and to Alex&#039;s comment about pedestrian traffic, there&#039;s clearly a difference between mainstreets that serve pedestrians and a mainstreet that caters to passers-by. A trunk highway could cater to both, but the types of businesses that would appeal to one vs. the other is not necessarily the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. To this point and to Alex&#8217;s comment about pedestrian traffic, there&#8217;s clearly a difference between mainstreets that serve pedestrians and a mainstreet that caters to passers-by. A trunk highway could cater to both, but the types of businesses that would appeal to one vs. the other is not necessarily the same.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2896</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 15:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2896</guid>
		<description>I think there is a point at which increasing traffic chokes out the local uses of a particular street. This happens on trunk highways that are small town main streets, and it happens in the city. One example is Cedar Ave in South Minneapolis. It has so much traffic for so much of the day that it has significantly choked opportunities for small businesses to operate in storefronts along the street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a point at which increasing traffic chokes out the local uses of a particular street. This happens on trunk highways that are small town main streets, and it happens in the city. One example is Cedar Ave in South Minneapolis. It has so much traffic for so much of the day that it has significantly choked opportunities for small businesses to operate in storefronts along the street.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2894</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:47:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2894</guid>
		<description>When was the last time your average Minnesotan stopped in downtown St. James, Little Falls, Albert Lea, etc? Bypasses are obviously a necessary evil in some cases, but they are destructive to historic downtowns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When was the last time your average Minnesotan stopped in downtown St. James, Little Falls, Albert Lea, etc? Bypasses are obviously a necessary evil in some cases, but they are destructive to historic downtowns.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2892</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2892</guid>
		<description>I agree with Peter - T.H.s and Main Streets have to coexist, because the only other alternative is a business-killing bypass.  The problem is that the residents often welcome these lethal bypasses, for example a Wasecan who was recently raving to me about the new Hwy 14 bypass that takes traffic two miles away from their downtown.  And I can see his point, because the old route used to take hundreds of trucks a day on a two-lane street that was residential through most of the town.  But it seems likely that the only alternative MnDot offered was this freeway-style bypass that&#039;s all but guaranteed to eliminate any tourism business, when a better solution would have been to create a truck bypass using existing township roads and upgrade the town route to a complete street.  

The reconstruction of 169 (Minnesota St) in St Peter is amazing, by the way.  Traffic is about a zillion times calmer.  I haven&#039;t noticed a big uptick in pedestrian traffic, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Peter &#8211; T.H.s and Main Streets have to coexist, because the only other alternative is a business-killing bypass.  The problem is that the residents often welcome these lethal bypasses, for example a Wasecan who was recently raving to me about the new Hwy 14 bypass that takes traffic two miles away from their downtown.  And I can see his point, because the old route used to take hundreds of trucks a day on a two-lane street that was residential through most of the town.  But it seems likely that the only alternative MnDot offered was this freeway-style bypass that&#8217;s all but guaranteed to eliminate any tourism business, when a better solution would have been to create a truck bypass using existing township roads and upgrade the town route to a complete street.  </p>
<p>The reconstruction of 169 (Minnesota St) in St Peter is amazing, by the way.  Traffic is about a zillion times calmer.  I haven&#8217;t noticed a big uptick in pedestrian traffic, though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Trunk Highway Main Streets by Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/16/trunk-highway-main-streets/#comment-2890</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 14:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1596#comment-2890</guid>
		<description>An interesting scenario that you don&#039;t bring up is when a trunk highway that formerly passed through a town&#039;s business district is upgraded and re-routed around the town. Some towns which thrived on the commerce that this direct traffic brought wither and fade. Clearly rural towns throughout the Great Plains and Midwest confront economic challenges beyond changing traffic patterns down main street, and perhaps these changes hasten a demise that is already in progress.

Regarding the broader question of trunk highways as main streets, my intuition is that trunk highways are usually good main streets when the region itself is a destination. Ely is a case in point. Another interesting example is the river roads in the Mississippi River Valley between Redwing and LaCrosse. This section of the Mississippi is rife with natural beauty and historical interest. 

US-61 on the Minnesota side of the river is much more of a thoroughfare. It is 2-lane between Redwing and Wabasha, and 4-land divided from Winona south to LaCrosse. In this stretch, it passes through the center of only 2 towns, Redwing and Lake City. Redwing is a destination in itself, and there are some fairly vibrant commercial areas just off the highway but little on it. I can think of one corner pretty close to the St. James Hotel that has seen a succession of businesses (gift shops, coffee shops, and currently a tax preparer) in the past five years. Similarly, Lake City has some businesses, but no vibrant main street commercial district to speak of.

By contrast, WI-35 is 2-lane most of the way from Redwing to LaCrosse and passes through a number of small towns, including Maiden Rock, Pepin, Nelson, Alma, and Fountain City. Many of these towns have bars and restaurants that cater to the myriad motorcyclists and motorists who pass through. They also feature small art galleries, gift shops, and the occasional museum - the types of businesses that appeal to tourists.

The other examples that come to mind are in my home state of Colorado. Many of the touristy mountain towns are bisected by highways, and many of these trunk highway main streets support thriving commercial districts. Estes Park, accessed via US-34 en route to Rocky Mountain National Park, is a ready example.

I&#039;ve also seen a variety of trunk highway configurations on cross-country bicycle tours. There&#039;s nothing quite like experiencing a main street as a bicyclist.  One memory comes from riding US-2 from Seattle to Bemidji a few summers ago. This highway is a popular cycling route across the northern U.S., and some towns, particularly on the plains in Montana, had capitalized on this popularity. Cyclists are more likely to travel just off the highway, and this particular town had a sign posted on the city hall next to a grassy lawn that said &quot;Cyclists welcome to camp here&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting scenario that you don&#8217;t bring up is when a trunk highway that formerly passed through a town&#8217;s business district is upgraded and re-routed around the town. Some towns which thrived on the commerce that this direct traffic brought wither and fade. Clearly rural towns throughout the Great Plains and Midwest confront economic challenges beyond changing traffic patterns down main street, and perhaps these changes hasten a demise that is already in progress.</p>
<p>Regarding the broader question of trunk highways as main streets, my intuition is that trunk highways are usually good main streets when the region itself is a destination. Ely is a case in point. Another interesting example is the river roads in the Mississippi River Valley between Redwing and LaCrosse. This section of the Mississippi is rife with natural beauty and historical interest. </p>
<p>US-61 on the Minnesota side of the river is much more of a thoroughfare. It is 2-lane between Redwing and Wabasha, and 4-land divided from Winona south to LaCrosse. In this stretch, it passes through the center of only 2 towns, Redwing and Lake City. Redwing is a destination in itself, and there are some fairly vibrant commercial areas just off the highway but little on it. I can think of one corner pretty close to the St. James Hotel that has seen a succession of businesses (gift shops, coffee shops, and currently a tax preparer) in the past five years. Similarly, Lake City has some businesses, but no vibrant main street commercial district to speak of.</p>
<p>By contrast, WI-35 is 2-lane most of the way from Redwing to LaCrosse and passes through a number of small towns, including Maiden Rock, Pepin, Nelson, Alma, and Fountain City. Many of these towns have bars and restaurants that cater to the myriad motorcyclists and motorists who pass through. They also feature small art galleries, gift shops, and the occasional museum &#8211; the types of businesses that appeal to tourists.</p>
<p>The other examples that come to mind are in my home state of Colorado. Many of the touristy mountain towns are bisected by highways, and many of these trunk highway main streets support thriving commercial districts. Estes Park, accessed via US-34 en route to Rocky Mountain National Park, is a ready example.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also seen a variety of trunk highway configurations on cross-country bicycle tours. There&#8217;s nothing quite like experiencing a main street as a bicyclist.  One memory comes from riding US-2 from Seattle to Bemidji a few summers ago. This highway is a popular cycling route across the northern U.S., and some towns, particularly on the plains in Montana, had capitalized on this popularity. Cyclists are more likely to travel just off the highway, and this particular town had a sign posted on the city hall next to a grassy lawn that said &#8220;Cyclists welcome to camp here&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2670</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 17:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2670</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how the planters would be maintained.  Planters need to be watered during dry or hot times of the year for instance.  Who would do that?  We don&#039;t typically ask residents to go quite that far with boulevard maintenance, and even if we do ask them many won&#039;t do so, and then we&#039;ll just have a bunch of dead plants in planters.  I do like the general concept though – it also gives a place for detritus to collect, as it tends to go to the edges of the road and if you place the bike lane at the edge you&#039;re then biking through leaves and sticks and the remains of snow piles, etc.  But you&#039;d still need street cleaning at some point, and the planters would get in the way of that.

I&#039;m glad this plan sticks to one-way roads.  This gives the most room, with no need for turn lanes, and in my opinion makes the roads easier to navigate for pedestrians and bikes – the timing of lights and turns can make it quite hard to cross a two-way road.  While there are quite a few accidents currently on these streets, the ones I&#039;ve heard about seem mostly to be from turning into the bike lane?  That in turn might be the fault of left-side lanes, and that arrangement was made possible by the roads being one-way, but the actual chain of causation from one-way streets to those accidents can be broken at any point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how the planters would be maintained.  Planters need to be watered during dry or hot times of the year for instance.  Who would do that?  We don&#8217;t typically ask residents to go quite that far with boulevard maintenance, and even if we do ask them many won&#8217;t do so, and then we&#8217;ll just have a bunch of dead plants in planters.  I do like the general concept though – it also gives a place for detritus to collect, as it tends to go to the edges of the road and if you place the bike lane at the edge you&#8217;re then biking through leaves and sticks and the remains of snow piles, etc.  But you&#8217;d still need street cleaning at some point, and the planters would get in the way of that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad this plan sticks to one-way roads.  This gives the most room, with no need for turn lanes, and in my opinion makes the roads easier to navigate for pedestrians and bikes – the timing of lights and turns can make it quite hard to cross a two-way road.  While there are quite a few accidents currently on these streets, the ones I&#8217;ve heard about seem mostly to be from turning into the bike lane?  That in turn might be the fault of left-side lanes, and that arrangement was made possible by the roads being one-way, but the actual chain of causation from one-way streets to those accidents can be broken at any point.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2668</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 17:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2668</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s very few destinations directly on Park and Portland, so there&#039;s not a strong need for a bus line there.  Chicago Avenue is nearby, and while that bus is very slow it&#039;s not because of congestion from what I can tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s very few destinations directly on Park and Portland, so there&#8217;s not a strong need for a bus line there.  Chicago Avenue is nearby, and while that bus is very slow it&#8217;s not because of congestion from what I can tell.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Phil</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2540</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 20:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2540</guid>
		<description>Excellent. Now, what are the odds that we see this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent. Now, what are the odds that we see this?</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2535</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 15:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2535</guid>
		<description>Will the parking lanes be turn lanes at intersections? It seems like the congestion would be much worse if there are only two traffic lanes and no separated turn infrastructure.

I like the physical separation for the bike lane, it would make that a much more enjoyable bike route. However, there is too much space allocated between the sidewalk and the bike lane. This is not a heavy commercial area, it&#039;s mostly residential. I would anticipate this space being underutilized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will the parking lanes be turn lanes at intersections? It seems like the congestion would be much worse if there are only two traffic lanes and no separated turn infrastructure.</p>
<p>I like the physical separation for the bike lane, it would make that a much more enjoyable bike route. However, there is too much space allocated between the sidewalk and the bike lane. This is not a heavy commercial area, it&#8217;s mostly residential. I would anticipate this space being underutilized.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2534</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 14:53:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2534</guid>
		<description>I like it. Scaling down Park &amp; Portland from the asphalt moats there are now to something more human-sized is really needed.

Maybe in the long-term they could even revert them back from one-way to two-way streets. As an earlier article pointed out these pre-freeway one-ways aren&#039;t really necessary anymore since we have interstates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like it. Scaling down Park &amp; Portland from the asphalt moats there are now to something more human-sized is really needed.</p>
<p>Maybe in the long-term they could even revert them back from one-way to two-way streets. As an earlier article pointed out these pre-freeway one-ways aren&#8217;t really necessary anymore since we have interstates.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by hokan</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2533</link>
		<dc:creator>hokan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 14:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2533</guid>
		<description>For this cycletrack option to work the signals would have to provide for separate phases for motorists and for cyclists on Park and Portland.  Given those separate phases, the question of left or right side doesn&#039;t matter so much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For this cycletrack option to work the signals would have to provide for separate phases for motorists and for cyclists on Park and Portland.  Given those separate phases, the question of left or right side doesn&#8217;t matter so much.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by David Levinson</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 14:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>The Metropolitan Council has a map which has the planned higher functional class roads here:

http://www.metrocouncil.org/planning/transportation/FuncRdwyClass/LargeReferenceFunClassMay2011.pdf

The differences are shown here:

http://www.datafinder.org/metadata/bg/FunctionalClassRoadsPlanned.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Metropolitan Council has a map which has the planned higher functional class roads here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.metrocouncil.org/planning/transportation/FuncRdwyClass/LargeReferenceFunClassMay2011.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.metrocouncil.org/planning/transportation/FuncRdwyClass/LargeReferenceFunClassMay2011.pdf</a></p>
<p>The differences are shown here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.datafinder.org/metadata/bg/FunctionalClassRoadsPlanned.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.datafinder.org/metadata/bg/FunctionalClassRoadsPlanned.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2530</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 13:55:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2530</guid>
		<description>I like the idea, but I&#039;m not sure we need buses on Park and Portland. Local routes are on Fourth and Chicago, and crosstown/ltd stop routes are going to connect to 35W BRT in the future to connect downtown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea, but I&#8217;m not sure we need buses on Park and Portland. Local routes are on Fourth and Chicago, and crosstown/ltd stop routes are going to connect to 35W BRT in the future to connect downtown.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by mulad</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2526</link>
		<dc:creator>mulad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 04:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2526</guid>
		<description>One idea I&#039;ve had is to have bike lanes on one of the streets and exclusive bus lanes on the other.  In each case, there would be bi-directional lanes (well, one lane in the one-way direction of flow and a contraflow lane on the opposite side).  I suspect that whichever street got the bus lanes wouldn&#039;t be able to have parking on both sides (though hopefully there&#039;d be enough room on one side).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One idea I&#8217;ve had is to have bike lanes on one of the streets and exclusive bus lanes on the other.  In each case, there would be bi-directional lanes (well, one lane in the one-way direction of flow and a contraflow lane on the opposite side).  I suspect that whichever street got the bus lanes wouldn&#8217;t be able to have parking on both sides (though hopefully there&#8217;d be enough room on one side).</p>
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		<title>Comment on An alternative design for Park and Portland by Robert Lilligren</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/10/an-alternative-design-for-park-and-portland/#comment-2519</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Lilligren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 00:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1472#comment-2519</guid>
		<description>I love these ideas. My one suggestion would be shifting the bike lane to the left side of Park Ave. Additional bike safety would be provided by the reduction in car lanes, the painted buffer and the car parking. If the bike lane is on the right side of Park, bikers will still have to cross two lanes of car traffic to access the Midtown Greenway entrance ramp, much like today&#039;s unsafe conditions southbound on Portland Ave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love these ideas. My one suggestion would be shifting the bike lane to the left side of Park Ave. Additional bike safety would be provided by the reduction in car lanes, the painted buffer and the car parking. If the bike lane is on the right side of Park, bikers will still have to cross two lanes of car traffic to access the Midtown Greenway entrance ramp, much like today&#8217;s unsafe conditions southbound on Portland Ave.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sprawl and the Big Crunch by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/04/sprawl-and-the-big-crunch/#comment-2509</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 14:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1450#comment-2509</guid>
		<description>Not exactly what you&#039;re looking for, but I overlaid the Paris and DC metro systems over the Twin Cities freeway network in this post:

http://gettingaroundmpls.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/towards-a-dense-multipolar-metro/

To answer your question more directly, I believe that the jurisdiction of Berlin&#039;s transit agency (BVG) corresponds with the city&#039;s boundaries (which extend a bit beyond the urbanized area), and the land area within is 344.35 sq mi.  The Met Council&#039;s jurisdiction (not subtracting opt-out jurisdiction) is 2975.5 sq mi.  I know BVG runs services to Potsdam, so maybe their jurisdiction is larger, but my guess is they just have an agreement to run it there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not exactly what you&#8217;re looking for, but I overlaid the Paris and DC metro systems over the Twin Cities freeway network in this post:</p>
<p><a href="http://gettingaroundmpls.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/towards-a-dense-multipolar-metro/" rel="nofollow">http://gettingaroundmpls.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/towards-a-dense-multipolar-metro/</a></p>
<p>To answer your question more directly, I believe that the jurisdiction of Berlin&#8217;s transit agency (BVG) corresponds with the city&#8217;s boundaries (which extend a bit beyond the urbanized area), and the land area within is 344.35 sq mi.  The Met Council&#8217;s jurisdiction (not subtracting opt-out jurisdiction) is 2975.5 sq mi.  I know BVG runs services to Potsdam, so maybe their jurisdiction is larger, but my guess is they just have an agreement to run it there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sprawl and the Big Crunch by Clay</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/04/sprawl-and-the-big-crunch/#comment-2489</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 02:05:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1450#comment-2489</guid>
		<description>I like the thought provoking post. Just a dumb question here, but has anyone ever thought to overlay the Metropolitan Council&#039;s domain with a map of some place like the London or Berlin transit authority&#039;s area? Taking into account the differences in population density, just how spread out are we, comparatively? Can we visualize this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the thought provoking post. Just a dumb question here, but has anyone ever thought to overlay the Metropolitan Council&#8217;s domain with a map of some place like the London or Berlin transit authority&#8217;s area? Taking into account the differences in population density, just how spread out are we, comparatively? Can we visualize this?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Magic of Streetcars, The Logic of Buses by Froggie</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/04/23/the-magic-of-streetcars-the-logic-of-buses/#comment-2425</link>
		<dc:creator>Froggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 21:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1311#comment-2425</guid>
		<description>Jumping in way late here, but in recent history, the 5 has had the highest ridership of the Metro Transit bus route, surpassed only by Hiawatha LRT.  Because getting ridership data from Metro Transit is like pulling teeth, though, I&#039;m not sure if that&#039;s still the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jumping in way late here, but in recent history, the 5 has had the highest ridership of the Metro Transit bus route, surpassed only by Hiawatha LRT.  Because getting ridership data from Metro Transit is like pulling teeth, though, I&#8217;m not sure if that&#8217;s still the case.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by Mike Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2424</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:55:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2424</guid>
		<description>No, I&#039;m not aware of any specific plans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I&#8217;m not aware of any specific plans.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by Mike Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2423</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2423</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/cped/news/cped_longfellow_station_news&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;redevelopment plan&lt;/a&gt;.  If I measure the parcel area correctly, the main chunk of it (ignoring the driveway extending down to 40th Street) is 900 feet long, though it looks like there are some significant setbacks from both the north and south ends of the building.  It still seems like the building itself will be about 700 feet (partly because the parcel is at an angle).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the <a href="http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/cped/news/cped_longfellow_station_news" rel="nofollow">redevelopment plan</a>.  If I measure the parcel area correctly, the main chunk of it (ignoring the driveway extending down to 40th Street) is 900 feet long, though it looks like there are some significant setbacks from both the north and south ends of the building.  It still seems like the building itself will be about 700 feet (partly because the parcel is at an angle).</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2422</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 19:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2422</guid>
		<description>Minneapolis has done sidewalk gap studies:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/pedestrian/pedestrian_pedestrian-masterplan-appendixa

and Minneapolis and Hennepin County have done bike network gap studies:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/bicycles/projects/bicycles_chapter7projects

although I&#039;d say there is a difference between the type of gap that is literally impassible (sidewalk gaps, Griddus Interruptus) and the type that is passable but requires a shift to a lower quality facility (bike network gaps, freeway gaps).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minneapolis has done sidewalk gap studies:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.minneapolismn.gov/pedestrian/pedestrian_pedestrian-masterplan-appendixa" rel="nofollow">http://www.minneapolismn.gov/pedestrian/pedestrian_pedestrian-masterplan-appendixa</a></p>
<p>and Minneapolis and Hennepin County have done bike network gap studies:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.minneapolismn.gov/bicycles/projects/bicycles_chapter7projects" rel="nofollow">http://www.minneapolismn.gov/bicycles/projects/bicycles_chapter7projects</a></p>
<p>although I&#8217;d say there is a difference between the type of gap that is literally impassible (sidewalk gaps, Griddus Interruptus) and the type that is passable but requires a shift to a lower quality facility (bike network gaps, freeway gaps).</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2420</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 18:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2420</guid>
		<description>I believe I heard subsequently that there was a typo in the site plan for Longfellow Station, so the building will not be 900 ft but probably more like 500?  I can&#039;t find a source/confirmation, though.  I guess I should correct my post, especially since the original source files are dead too.  There&#039;s more than one type of broken link...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I heard subsequently that there was a typo in the site plan for Longfellow Station, so the building will not be 900 ft but probably more like 500?  I can&#8217;t find a source/confirmation, though.  I guess I should correct my post, especially since the original source files are dead too.  There&#8217;s more than one type of broken link&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by David Levinson</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2416</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 16:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2416</guid>
		<description>@Mulad, I agree with the need for RR-crossings in St. Paul, I have not seen any proposals for those though. Does any official proposal exist, aside from speculations?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mulad, I agree with the need for RR-crossings in St. Paul, I have not seen any proposals for those though. Does any official proposal exist, aside from speculations?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by David King</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2415</link>
		<dc:creator>David King</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 15:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2415</guid>
		<description>Here in NYC the long forgotten X Line has recently been re-proposed, and re-shot down. I won&#039;t comment about the BCA but it would be an excellent connection within the existing network.
http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/04/5772951/surprising-return-three-borough-x-line-subway
Connecting boroughs to others that are not Manhattan is certainly a missing link here.
(I know this is off the MN part of streets.mn, but thought it may be of interest)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in NYC the long forgotten X Line has recently been re-proposed, and re-shot down. I won&#8217;t comment about the BCA but it would be an excellent connection within the existing network.<br />
<a href="http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/04/5772951/surprising-return-three-borough-x-line-subway" rel="nofollow">http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/04/5772951/surprising-return-three-borough-x-line-subway</a><br />
Connecting boroughs to others that are not Manhattan is certainly a missing link here.<br />
(I know this is off the MN part of streets.mn, but thought it may be of interest)</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing Link by Mike Hicks</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/07/the-missing-link/#comment-2413</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hicks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2012 14:40:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1456#comment-2413</guid>
		<description>I wouldn&#039;t quite call the SB 169 to WB 494 movement &quot;missing&quot;, since it&#039;ll be possible to do it by going through a single roundabout. The opposite opposite movement does seem to be legitimately absent, however (EB 494 to NB 169).

In general, I like the idea of making something connect across the tracks in Minneapolis somewhere between 15th Ave SE and MN-280 -- I used to live at University Village and always felt a bit constricted since there wasn&#039;t much to go to either north or south.  But, at the same time, the concepts I&#039;ve seen mostly seem to assume that the rail yard area will shrink.  It has shrunk quite a bit over the years as rail networks got more optimized and as the grain elevators in the area dropped out of business, but I&#039;m not sure if we can expect the rails to continue to disappear.

Oh well, that mostly just affects the scale of whatever bridge gets built.  I&#039;m sure people living in the Como neighborhood have also felt similarly constrained by industry on the north and rails on the south.

On the subject of rail crossings, there&#039;s also a big need for more ways to get across the tracks in Saint Paul.  While I-94 did do a significant amount of damage to the grid in the city, it&#039;s actually one of the better examples in our region, and has much better connectivity across it than the rails do.  It&#039;s well over a mile between Raymond Avenue and Snelling Avenue, and there are mile-long gaps between Snelling and Lexington and Dale and Rice.  I&#039;m a bit more concerned about bike/pedestrian connections rather than additional roads, though.

I&#039;m a bit more interested these days in the idea of small-scale connectivity.  I&#039;d really like to see a couple of existing blocks get built up densely and broken up into smaller pieces, with a focus on making a really stellar pedestrian environment.  In many redevelopment efforts since WWII, block sizes have tended to grow larger and larger, but I feel there&#039;s probably more value in breaking up blocks into smaller sizes (as long as the streets are scaled to be fairly narrow in most cases).

In an over-the-top example, the super-dense enclave of the Kowloon Walled City (which got torn down in Hong Kong in the &#039;90s) housed 30,000+ people plus businesses, a central courtyard, and small restaurants in an area of 7 or 8 acres, roughly the same size as a standard &quot;long block&quot; in Minneapolis -- also about the same size as the hole in the center of the Mall of America which houses the Nickelodeon Universe amusement park (formerly Camp Snoopy).  It had an extensive &lt;a href=&quot;http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3150005&amp;postcount=150&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;internal network of streets and alleys&lt;/a&gt; to allow people to move around, plus there were staircases and other informal connections at higher levels in the complex.

In contrast, we tend to build very monolithic structures here. For example, the Longfellow Station TOD project on Hiawatha Avenue in Minneapolis may end up with a building that is &lt;a href=&quot;http://gettingaroundmpls.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/longfellow-station-or-how-the-tea-party-movement-could-save-us-all-if-they-would-just-pick-up-a-civics-textbook-for-once/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;900 feet long&lt;/a&gt;. Not really the best way to build transit-oriented development, if you ask me (which really should be pedestrian-oriented development that happens to be near a station).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#8217;t quite call the SB 169 to WB 494 movement &#8220;missing&#8221;, since it&#8217;ll be possible to do it by going through a single roundabout. The opposite opposite movement does seem to be legitimately absent, however (EB 494 to NB 169).</p>
<p>In general, I like the idea of making something connect across the tracks in Minneapolis somewhere between 15th Ave SE and MN-280 &#8212; I used to live at University Village and always felt a bit constricted since there wasn&#8217;t much to go to either north or south.  But, at the same time, the concepts I&#8217;ve seen mostly seem to assume that the rail yard area will shrink.  It has shrunk quite a bit over the years as rail networks got more optimized and as the grain elevators in the area dropped out of business, but I&#8217;m not sure if we can expect the rails to continue to disappear.</p>
<p>Oh well, that mostly just affects the scale of whatever bridge gets built.  I&#8217;m sure people living in the Como neighborhood have also felt similarly constrained by industry on the north and rails on the south.</p>
<p>On the subject of rail crossings, there&#8217;s also a big need for more ways to get across the tracks in Saint Paul.  While I-94 did do a significant amount of damage to the grid in the city, it&#8217;s actually one of the better examples in our region, and has much better connectivity across it than the rails do.  It&#8217;s well over a mile between Raymond Avenue and Snelling Avenue, and there are mile-long gaps between Snelling and Lexington and Dale and Rice.  I&#8217;m a bit more concerned about bike/pedestrian connections rather than additional roads, though.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a bit more interested these days in the idea of small-scale connectivity.  I&#8217;d really like to see a couple of existing blocks get built up densely and broken up into smaller pieces, with a focus on making a really stellar pedestrian environment.  In many redevelopment efforts since WWII, block sizes have tended to grow larger and larger, but I feel there&#8217;s probably more value in breaking up blocks into smaller sizes (as long as the streets are scaled to be fairly narrow in most cases).</p>
<p>In an over-the-top example, the super-dense enclave of the Kowloon Walled City (which got torn down in Hong Kong in the &#8217;90s) housed 30,000+ people plus businesses, a central courtyard, and small restaurants in an area of 7 or 8 acres, roughly the same size as a standard &#8220;long block&#8221; in Minneapolis &#8212; also about the same size as the hole in the center of the Mall of America which houses the Nickelodeon Universe amusement park (formerly Camp Snoopy).  It had an extensive <a href="http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=3150005&#038;postcount=150" rel="nofollow">internal network of streets and alleys</a> to allow people to move around, plus there were staircases and other informal connections at higher levels in the complex.</p>
<p>In contrast, we tend to build very monolithic structures here. For example, the Longfellow Station TOD project on Hiawatha Avenue in Minneapolis may end up with a building that is <a href="http://gettingaroundmpls.wordpress.com/2010/11/20/longfellow-station-or-how-the-tea-party-movement-could-save-us-all-if-they-would-just-pick-up-a-civics-textbook-for-once/" rel="nofollow">900 feet long</a>. Not really the best way to build transit-oriented development, if you ask me (which really should be pedestrian-oriented development that happens to be near a station).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sprawl and the Big Crunch by Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/04/sprawl-and-the-big-crunch/#comment-2356</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 15:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1450#comment-2356</guid>
		<description>&quot;It’s true that public transportation can and should be sped up and expanded, but there are some inherent limits to the technology.&quot;

This is why it is so disappointing that there is so very little interest, and even substantial hostility, towards technological progress in public transportation.

And while the inner city could capture more of the growth in the area (or *any* of the growth would be nice: http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/149300655.html), expecting actual contraction of the suburbs is unrealistic.  Would you expect outer ring suburbs to become ghost towns?  The shape of our density could change, but we can&#039;t remove the built spaces and scale that we have now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It’s true that public transportation can and should be sped up and expanded, but there are some inherent limits to the technology.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is why it is so disappointing that there is so very little interest, and even substantial hostility, towards technological progress in public transportation.</p>
<p>And while the inner city could capture more of the growth in the area (or *any* of the growth would be nice: <a href="http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/149300655.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/149300655.html</a>), expecting actual contraction of the suburbs is unrealistic.  Would you expect outer ring suburbs to become ghost towns?  The shape of our density could change, but we can&#8217;t remove the built spaces and scale that we have now.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by David Levinson</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2354</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 14:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2354</guid>
		<description>More official write-up of how MnDOT came up with their number, it seems DEED has a writeup, but no real report.

http://www.positivelyminnesota.com/Data_Publications/Data/Research_Reports/Economic_Development_Insights/Economic_Impacts_of_the_I35W_Bridge_Collapse.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More official write-up of how MnDOT came up with their number, it seems DEED has a writeup, but no real report.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.positivelyminnesota.com/Data_Publications/Data/Research_Reports/Economic_Development_Insights/Economic_Impacts_of_the_I35W_Bridge_Collapse.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.positivelyminnesota.com/Data_Publications/Data/Research_Reports/Economic_Development_Insights/Economic_Impacts_of_the_I35W_Bridge_Collapse.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Sprawl and the Big Crunch by Reuben Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/04/sprawl-and-the-big-crunch/#comment-2338</link>
		<dc:creator>Reuben Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 23:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1450#comment-2338</guid>
		<description>This is a really excellent post. Regardless of which technologies fade away, which ones continue to be used, and which new ones emerge, the general objective of shifting things towards the core is a high priority. I don&#039;t know exactly how to accomplish it, but dead zones within the core simply should not be tolerated. Underutilized land should be redeveloped before greenfield sites are developed. Transportation investments should be made in central cities before suburban areas. Vitality should start at the center and spread outward. This will not be easy to accomplish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really excellent post. Regardless of which technologies fade away, which ones continue to be used, and which new ones emerge, the general objective of shifting things towards the core is a high priority. I don&#8217;t know exactly how to accomplish it, but dead zones within the core simply should not be tolerated. Underutilized land should be redeveloped before greenfield sites are developed. Transportation investments should be made in central cities before suburban areas. Vitality should start at the center and spread outward. This will not be easy to accomplish.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Sprawl and the Big Crunch by David Levinson</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/04/sprawl-and-the-big-crunch/#comment-2335</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 19:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1450#comment-2335</guid>
		<description>You might look at http://a2d.umn.edu/ to create accessibility maps, mobility maps, and so on for lots of places around the region.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might look at <a href="http://a2d.umn.edu/" rel="nofollow">http://a2d.umn.edu/</a> to create accessibility maps, mobility maps, and so on for lots of places around the region.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by Bill Lindeke</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2323</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Lindeke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 02:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2323</guid>
		<description>a propos news story: http://www.newser.com/story/145081/thieves-make-off-with-10-ton-bridge.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a propos news story: <a href="http://www.newser.com/story/145081/thieves-make-off-with-10-ton-bridge.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newser.com/story/145081/thieves-make-off-with-10-ton-bridge.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2318</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2318</guid>
		<description>Quote:

&quot;The Minnesota Department of Transportation (MnDOT) estimated rerouting alone could cost individual travelers and commercial vehicles $400,000 daily. Xie and Levinson (2009) estimated a lower, but still large,road user cost, between $71,000 and $220,000 per day.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Minnesota Department of Transportation (MnDOT) estimated rerouting alone could cost individual travelers and commercial vehicles $400,000 daily. Xie and Levinson (2009) estimated a lower, but still large,road user cost, between $71,000 and $220,000 per day.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hooray! Hooray! FHWA Non-Motorized Transportation Pilot Project Report Released Today! by David Levinson</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/01/hooray-hooray-fhwa-report-released-today/#comment-2317</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1426#comment-2317</guid>
		<description>I agree, correlation is not causation. Be very careful about attributing a 49% increase in bike ridership to the projects funded by NTPP. Gas prices doubled and the great recession also played some role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, correlation is not causation. Be very careful about attributing a 49% increase in bike ridership to the projects funded by NTPP. Gas prices doubled and the great recession also played some role.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by David Levinson</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2316</link>
		<dc:creator>David Levinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2316</guid>
		<description>I roughly know where the figure came from (assuming fixed demand, and all traffic reroutes as the traffic planners say it should, and so on) and have concluded it is too high. 

Our ex post estimates are available here: http://nexus.umn.edu/Projects/BRIDGE/Mn-DOT2010-21.pdf

and we estimated about $ 49,000 per day</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I roughly know where the figure came from (assuming fixed demand, and all traffic reroutes as the traffic planners say it should, and so on) and have concluded it is too high. </p>
<p>Our ex post estimates are available here: <a href="http://nexus.umn.edu/Projects/BRIDGE/Mn-DOT2010-21.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://nexus.umn.edu/Projects/BRIDGE/Mn-DOT2010-21.pdf</a></p>
<p>and we estimated about $ 49,000 per day</p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by David Greene</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2315</link>
		<dc:creator>David Greene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 18:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2315</guid>
		<description>I do indeed.  No one I know in the transportation field (and admittedly I don&#039;t know that many) could figure out where that number came from.

I drove the I-94 corridor throughout the whole episode.  It had no worse traffic then than it does now.  Induced demand is real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do indeed.  No one I know in the transportation field (and admittedly I don&#8217;t know that many) could figure out where that number came from.</p>
<p>I drove the I-94 corridor throughout the whole episode.  It had no worse traffic then than it does now.  Induced demand is real.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2314</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 16:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2314</guid>
		<description>See &quot;The emperor has no clothes&quot; @ StrongTowns.org Podcast:

http://www.strongtowns.org/strong-towns-podcast/2010/11/10/the-emperor-has-no-clothes.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See &#8220;The emperor has no clothes&#8221; @ StrongTowns.org Podcast:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.strongtowns.org/strong-towns-podcast/2010/11/10/the-emperor-has-no-clothes.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.strongtowns.org/strong-towns-podcast/2010/11/10/the-emperor-has-no-clothes.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by Froggie</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2312</link>
		<dc:creator>Froggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 15:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2312</guid>
		<description>So you disagree with the calculation that the loss of the I-35W bridge was costing the state $400K PER DAY?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you disagree with the calculation that the loss of the I-35W bridge was costing the state $400K PER DAY?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Removing our Least Useful Bridges by Nathaniel</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/05/02/removing-our-least-useful-bridges/#comment-2305</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathaniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 05:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1434#comment-2305</guid>
		<description>There is an interesting case of a bridge closure in St. Paul. In Highland Park, along Edgecumbe and the start of Hamline, the city has closed the small Edgecumbe Bridge (see link below). It is now open to only pedestrians and bikes. I&#039;m not sure if the bridge is structurally deficent, but that is my guess.

Things worked out. The bridge never saw lots of traffic anyways, but unlike some suburban areas - there are many alternative routes to access the road beyond the bridge. From living in the neighborhood (down the road slightly), I can confirm that there has been no real noticeable change as a result of the closure.


http://www.google.com/maps?q=st+paul+mn&amp;hl=en&amp;ll=44.914356,-93.156649&amp;spn=0.005151,0.011362&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=46.898798,93.076172&amp;t=h&amp;hnear=St+Paul,+Ramsey,+Minnesota&amp;z=17&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=44.914361,-93.156826&amp;panoid=N6reFZOW_aKfwYtDAxyfRA&amp;cbp=12,90.66,,0,6.46</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an interesting case of a bridge closure in St. Paul. In Highland Park, along Edgecumbe and the start of Hamline, the city has closed the small Edgecumbe Bridge (see link below). It is now open to only pedestrians and bikes. I&#8217;m not sure if the bridge is structurally deficent, but that is my guess.</p>
<p>Things worked out. The bridge never saw lots of traffic anyways, but unlike some suburban areas &#8211; there are many alternative routes to access the road beyond the bridge. From living in the neighborhood (down the road slightly), I can confirm that there has been no real noticeable change as a result of the closure.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.google.com/maps?q=st+paul+mn&#038;hl=en&#038;ll=44.914356,-93.156649&#038;spn=0.005151,0.011362&#038;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&#038;sspn=46.898798,93.076172&#038;t=h&#038;hnear=St+Paul,+Ramsey,+Minnesota&#038;z=17&#038;layer=c&#038;cbll=44.914361,-93.156826&#038;panoid=N6reFZOW_aKfwYtDAxyfRA&#038;cbp=12,90.66" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/maps?q=st+paul+mn&#038;hl=en&#038;ll=44.914356,-93.156649&#038;spn=0.005151,0.011362&#038;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&#038;sspn=46.898798,93.076172&#038;t=h&#038;hnear=St+Paul,+Ramsey,+Minnesota&#038;z=17&#038;layer=c&#038;cbll=44.914361,-93.156826&#038;panoid=N6reFZOW_aKfwYtDAxyfRA&#038;cbp=12,90.66</a>,,0,6.46</p>
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		<title>Comment on Time for a change on Park and Portland by Time is now to start transforming Park and Portland Avenues &#124; Minneapolis Bicycle Coalition</title>
		<link>http://www.streets.mn/2012/04/09/time-for-a-change-on-park-and-portland/#comment-2303</link>
		<dc:creator>Time is now to start transforming Park and Portland Avenues &#124; Minneapolis Bicycle Coalition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2012 04:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.streets.mn/?p=1172#comment-2303</guid>
		<description>[...] we make it happen? There were two recent articles on streets.mn that offer some good options (from Brendon and from Bill). We&#8217;re taking those ideas and building on them with what we think is a viable [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] we make it happen? There were two recent articles on streets.mn that offer some good options (from Brendon and from Bill). We&#8217;re taking those ideas and building on them with what we think is a viable [...]</p>
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